An Interview with Haydn

Regarding the Death of his Mother

KB: So Haydn, firstly, tell us a bit about yourself: who are you and what do you do?

HS: My full name is Haydn Russell Sennitt. I have just finished my Bachelor of Social Science and Policy with a major in Politics. Today is my very last day so I don't know what I'm going to do now. I'm looking for full-time work—hopefully in the social and market research, or wherever God takes me.

KB: Are your family Christian?

HS: No they're not. I'm the only Christian in my family. It's a bit of a yes-no answer because my mum became a Christian before she died. So, yes, but [my mum's] not alive, so the family that remains is not Christian.

KB: How did you become a believer in Christ?

HS: I became a believer when I was at school—at Trinity Grammar School in 1998. A friend, Hugh Dirks, challenged me to think about Christianity and, at first, I was a bit sceptical because I thought Christianity was an institutionalised religion because I went to a Christian school. To me it was just a lot of hocus pocus. My friend challenged me to read the gospel and consider Christianity. Of course [at first] I couldn't care less [about it]. But after a while God worked in me. I picked up the New Testament and read all of it—Matthew to Revelation—and just was blown away by Jesus' death and resurrection. I felt that, after reading the epistles, this was something that I really wanted to have. I really wanted to have that faith that saved people.

KB: When you became a Christian, how did your family react?

HS: Surprisingly well. I thought they would freak out but they don't understand what Christianity's about. To them, religion was never an issue. I was confirmed as a Catholic and I went to a Catholic school. But my mother was a Catholic and my father was Church of England. For them, religion was never an issue; it was just like a brand name or a logo—like, I like Nike, you like Saucony. So, when I became a Christian, they actually thought it was a good thing because, at the time, I didn't have many friends. They may have thought it was a good way to establish a social network—get some friends, get a life—and so they encouraged me to go along with it, even though they had no idea what in involved in terms of beliefs and a changed life.

KB: So how long have you been walking with the Lord now?

HS: Since '98—so that would be about four years.

KB: Now you say that your mother's now dead. She died of cancer, didn't she?

HS: Yes.

KB: When was the first time she was diagnosed? How many times was she diagnosed and what was the diagnosis each time?

HS: Well the first time she was diagnosed was in 1985. I was about 5 at the time. She was diagnosed with a lump on her breast which was malignant. She had her first lumpectomy (where the doctors remove the malignant lump) and then she had a masectomy (where they remove the breast) because [the cancer] got into her lymph nodes. The second time [she was diagnosed] was in '95, about ten years later. She discovered another lump on her second breast and she had to have the whole thing removed. Then the third time she was diagnosed was in the summer of 2002. The cancer had spread by that time into her bones, and [it] went from her bones to her liver and eventually killed her. The previous two times she just had radiotherapy; the last time she had chemo but it was too late by the time they found out.

KB: How did the treatment that she receive affect her?

HS: It almost changed her personality—especially the radiotherapy. I think, in her own mind, she knew that this was the last time she was going to fight the cancer. It was going to eventually kill her. In a sense she almost gave up the fight. She knew that it was going to be over soon. When she was going through the treatment, physically she was sick, because, with the chemo, it pretty much destroys your immune system. You can't touch the person if you've got a cold or a minor bug. You can't even go near the person. So she became withdrawn. She went quiet, she didn't talk to anyone, she wouldn't let us help her. We said, “We're here. We want to help you,” but she didn't want our help. She became moody and cranky, and it was very difficult for us because we wanted to help. [We] really loved her, but she was, in a sense, pushing us away because she knew the end was coming.

KB: How did your family react and behave during this time?

HS: They were mostly really confused. I myself got angry with her because it seemed quite unfair—what she was doing. We wanted to be there in whatever capacity and she was pushing us away. My father became quite distraught because she was pushing him away. She just wouldn't talk to him. We'd ask her, “What's on your mind?” and she'd say, “You don't understand where I'm coming from.” That really hurt my father and my sister. We knew we couldn't understand but we wanted to help her anyway; we wanted to listen to her but she just wasn't interested. So we felt that we were being rejected by her. We sort of understood why but it was still hard.

KB: How long had you been a Christian when your mother was diagnosed for the last time?

HS: I'd been a Christian for about three years.

KB: And did the news affect your faith in God or your prayer life or your efforts in evangelism?

HS: In many ways it kind of encouraged them because, for one thing, I started to pray more and more for my mum's salvation. I pretty much told all my friends about it and all my Christian friends were praying for me. So that was a big blessing. I started to read the Scriptures more. In terms of my efforts in evangelism, I put in more effort—especially with my mother. In January of 2001 I basically told her the thrust of the gospel message and after that she became a Christian. So, in a sense, [what was happening] fuelled it. Outside of my family I didn't put much more effort into evangelism; it was only really with my family that I started honing in—also with my dad and my sister. In terms of my faith in God, it actually strengthened my faith, especially after I found out that my mother had become a Christian.

KB: So how did your church and other Christians respond when you told them that this was happening?

HS: They were very helpful. Especially up until the funeral. They prayed for me. They asked me how things were going. As you could probably have predicted, after the funeral, people lost interest, like it was a sharemarket crash or something. All of a sudden no one really discussed it. But up until that point people were very supportive. They'd ask me how things were going and said that they'd pray for me.

KB: What could your church and other Christians have done to help you during this time?

HS: I guess the biggest thing that would have helped was [if they] kept on encouraging me—especially in the word—through the Bible. Kept reminding me of the truth of the gospel and of God's comfort. It's understandable that a lot of people can't really understand or appreciate [what I went through] because they've never lost anyone. But I still don't think that's a reason to not do it. I found it very hard during that time to not become embittered and angry with church. (This was my old church, not my new church.) It was really chewing me up inside. I knew at the end of the day that all comfort came from the gospel, but because I was not being reminded of it, I found it very hard to take the initiative—to pick up [the Bible] and read it. It would have been great if someone had offered to pray for me after that—[if they] had asked me every now and then, “How are things going?” To me, it doesn't require a Bachelor of Psychology to figure it out. Just to be there for someone. So, I think that's something that I really would have appreciated. Prayer and an ear to listen to me.

KB: How did God show his love for you during this period?

HS: It was often hard to see because I think I wasn't looking for it. But I think throughout it all he was sustaining me in faith. I mean, it's the only thing I really had. My family was going through its own problems and I had a lot of problems with my family afterwards. They had their own grief to deal with. People at church weren't there to support me. So the only person I really had was God. And that's how God spoke to me—by throwing me in the deep end and saying, “I'm the only one who's going to get you through this. Anything else is just a false crutch.” So that's really what got me through at the end of it all.

KB: When did your mother pass away?

HS: She died in March of 2001—March the 9th.

KB: And how did you and your family cope after she died?

HS: About two months after it was often common for my dad just to be in the house alone, moping, focusing on his depression. After I'd come home, we'd cry together about my mum. He'd tell me how he was feeling and all that sort of stuff. But soon after [her death] we stopped existing as a family. We just lived as three separate individuals. My sister was out with her boyfriend. My dad [was with] his new girlfriend. ... So it was a very awkward time.

A lot of those problems still carry on—the problems of my dad and his girlfriend, the disparate way that we're living. We're almost living apart from one another. We don't sit down to eat anymore as a family which is something that we used to do when my mum was alive. In many ways we've just become a loose federation of three individuals rather than a close family that we once were. I would have preferred it if we had laid on each other the grief we were having. But that's not happening now. It's almost like my dad has this competitive nature in his grief—that his grief is bigger than ours and more important than the grief of my sister and I, because he was married to my mother. That carries with it other problems because it makes me feel like my grief isn't important. So we've still got a lot of problems.

After my mum died, my dad was interested in Christianity but that didn't last very long. I think his difficulty was accepting that he was a sinful man who needed salvation. He was too proud to admit it and he gave up thinking about Christianity because it asked too much of him.

KB: Did you ever find yourself doubting God's existence, his sovereignty, his love or his goodness?

HS: Well yeah, I did. At the time I didn't realise that I was doubting his goodness but, at a crucial time last year in October—I don't want to be specific—but I sinned in a way that really affected me later on. I sinned in a way that I never thought I could sin before. I did some really foolish and stupid things. And when I look back, a lot of it was due to the fact that I wasn't trusting God with all my heart. I wasn't giving over to him everything that was troubling me and I think also that I had decided to take matters into my own hands. In many ways I was seeking comfort in my grief—even though I didn't realise at the time—and [I] sought it in worldly ways rather than seeking God. And that has had a profound effect on my faith now—on the way I view God. I don't doubt that he's not working in me. I think he is working in me and he loves me very much. Because of the grief and because I had little support at the time, it led me to doubt him and to doubt that he's in control. Even though outwardly I was thinking, “Yes, God is in control—just trust him,” deep in my heart I think I had reservations, and foolishly, I went about to do it my own way. It was very foolish and stupid.

KB: What have you learned from all of this, especially about the problem of pain, as Lewis puts it?

HS: I learned just to trust God's goodness. God really does love us and God really does care for us. He seems distant at the time—he seems cold, even—but that's because the devil wants us to think. The devil wants us to think that God doesn't care because he's too big for us. But God does care; he took on human flesh, died for sin. Hebrews 2:14 says he knows what it's like to be human—[he] knows what [it's like] for his brothers to suffer. He doesn't want us to suffer but in many ways he allows it to happen because it builds us up and teaches us to persevere. So I think in all of this I've learnt that grief and pain does build us up because God is in control—he's in control of everything—grief, sorrow. [I've learnt] to trust him and bring to him everything that's in my life—not holding anything back and not making excuses to turn my back on him. [I've learnt] to bring it to him, to confess and to trust him enough. [I] know that he is in control.

KB: What would you say to other believers in similar circumstances?

HS: It's somewhat difficult because, in many ways, you have to rely to a great extent on other people. As much as you trust God, you want to know that other people care for you. So, I would certainly say to people, try as much as you can to get your Christian friends to offer you prayer and support. But above all you've got to know that God knows what's best. [You've got] to really build yourself up in his word and be prayerful. Like I said, Satan will often use the best of circumstances and the worst of circumstances to distract us—stop us from praying, stop us from giving it over to God. But if we confess it, then God will help us through. So if we pray, if we read the word and confess our grief to fellow believers who care, then I think we can get through. But you don't want to offload all your problems onto your fellow Christians because you might freak them out. A lot of the time they don't know how to deal with it. But you might say to your Christian friends, “Can you pray this for me—I'm going through a hard patch at the moment, etc,” so that you can build one another up. If you get to the point where you start to doubt God and his good provision and his sovereignty, then bring that to God and say, “God, I'm doubting you at the moment. Please get me through this.”

KB: Is there any way for other Christians who haven't gone through the same pain of losing of someone they've loved to be prepared and to equip themselves to help other people?

HS: Yes. I think a lot of Christians seem to have the wrong impression that somehow to help a fellow Christian through a dilemma—through a problem, a struggle, a temptation—you have to understand the problem through and through. A lot of the time with grief you don't actually need to know the problem like a psychologist. It's just a matter of listening to people. So if a friend comes to you and says, “I'm dealing with grief at the moment,” you say, “What's upsetting you so much?” I know this sounds like a market researcher training someone, but try to and prod it out of them. Ask questions like, “How's it affecting you? How's it changing your view of God?” and so on. And after they've mentioned a few things, pray for them: “Let's pray about these things now. I'll pray for you during the week.” Then to remind them of the gospel. Open up the Scriptures and remind [them] of the comfort that God provides.

The worst thing that people can do is not ask questions [and] act as if the problem's not there. Apathy, I think, has been the biggest problem for me. And, I think, if at least one Christian [had] asked me each week how things were going, it would have totally changed things—totally changed the way I viewed church, totally changed the way I viewed God. I think I would [have] trusted him a bit more. So it's just a matter of being consistent and remembering that a lot of the time people want to talk about their grief. But it's only 'till they're actually asked about it. It shows to the person who's struggling with these problems that we care for them, rather than a Catch-22 [situation] where [one] thinks, “Well, I'm not going to say anything 'cause he's not asking it,” and [the other thinks], “I'm not going to ask him because he's not going to tell me about it.” I think the person who's offering support has to take more initiative because the person struggling with grief is not going to suddenly talk about it because they might feel guilty. They don't want to bring all their problems out to everybody. So it's just taking a bit of initiative—to go up to the struggler and say, “How are things going?” And actually doing something about it—praying with them and putting your arm around them and just hearing them out.

Issue 04 The Suffering of God As Hard as Wood An Interview with Haydn Putting Out The Fires Of Hell Snapshots of Heaven Be Prepared To Suffer Is Christ Worth It? Epilogue Hippocampus Extensions About Issues Ben Karen

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