Oh dear
Tuesday, 30 September, 2008
The things when you learn when you do things. I hate that you don't realise you've done something wrong until someone gets mad at you and then points it out at you. But I suppose that's the way life is.
Anyway, we got a bit into a bit of trouble for listing my knitting in Bec's Etsy shop because the owner of the Odessa pattern contacted Bec to say we shouldn't have listed the item for sale without her permission, and doing so constituted copyright infringement.
Further research into the whole subject revealed some hitherto unknown pieces of information. Well, I did know that knitting patterns are subject to copyright. I just didn't know that making something from a copyrighted pattern does not mean that you can sell it. This blogger notes,
In fact, the industry norm is that items made from any pattern that the knitter buys or downloads (even free patterns) may only be made for the knitter or as gifts. So in the absence of a copyright notice on the pattern, it could be argued that those would be the implied conditions of use. This is not universally accepted; here's the starting point to one long discussion I read where this point was argued back and forth. I note, however, that even the person arguing that the knitted articles should be able to be sold also argued that credit should be given to the designer.
Sometimes what I've done is adapt a pattern but that doesn't entirely mean that what I make a completely new creation. Knitty's article on the subject says,
1. I'm designing a knitting pattern. Can I use a stitch pattern I've seen somewhere before?
The building blocks of stitch patterns —knit, purl, cable, twist, increase, decrease, yarn over, and so forth—are not protected by copyright. They're techniques. However, their combinations might be protected.
So there you go. I've violated international copyright law. But what do I do about the stuff I sold?
Current:
seen: Moon 15/10/2009
read: The Incredibles 11/10/2009
seen: She's the Man 05/10/2009
read: I Kill Giants (Joe Kelly and J. M. Ken Niimura) 04/10/2009
read: Astro City The Dark Ages Book 1: Brothers and Other Strangers (Kurt Busiek, Brent Anderson and Alex Ross) 04/10/2009
seen: Children of Men 02/10/2009
seen: Metric (The Metro) 30/09/2009
seen: 500 Days of Summer 25/09/2009
seen: The September Issue 18/09/2009
seen: Gilmore Girls: Season 1 17/09/2009
read: Flight (Volume 1) (edited by Kazu Kibuishi) 16/09/2009
seen: Ponyo 11/09/2009
read: Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? (Neil Gaiman and Andy Kubert) 05/09/2009
heard: Aimee Mann (Enmore Theatre) 04/09/2009
heard: Ben Folds Solo (Opera House) 31/08/2009
read: Phonogram: Rue Britannia (Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie) 26/08/2009
seen: Northanger Abbey 20/08/2009
read: The Princess Diaries (Meg Cabot) 18/08/2009
seen: The Phantom of the Opera 17/08/2009
seen: Who Framed Roger Rabbit? 10/08/2009
seen: District 9 10/08/2009
read: Shortcomings (Adrian Tomine) 02/08/2009
read: AIR Volume 1: Letters from Lost Countries (Willow Wilson and M.K. Perker) 28/07/2009
seen: Persepolis 25/07/2009
seen: Ghost Town 25/07/2009
heard: Gutter Twins (Seymour Centre) 23/07/2009
seen: Coco Avant Chanel 20/07/2009
seen: Gutenberg! The Musical (Seymour Centre) 16/07/2009
seen: So You Think You Can Dance? Australia Live Tour (Sydney Entertainment Centre) 11/07/2009
seen: Every Little Step 07/07/2009
seen: Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen 03/07/2009
seen: Synecdoche, New York 30/06/2009
seen: Charlie's Angels 27/06/2009
seen: Penelope 26/06/2009
seen: Coraline 10/06/2009
seen: The Sky Crawlers 08/06/2009
seen: The Bourne Ultimatum 07/06/2009
seen: The Bourne Supremacy 07/06/2009
seen: The Bourne Identity 06/06/2009
seen: Stick it 05/06/2009
Comment:
@Sarah: Thanks for the tip RE Australian Breastfeeding Association! I never would have thought to look there. Ditto KMart: I was wondering if they did since Target don’t.
@Rae: Thanks for the tip! I’ll check it out.
@Little Rachel: Oh, I’ll definitely be up for visitors! I may not be very good company (brain-dead, etc.) but I’ll certainly appreciate visits!
@Rachel C: CONGRATS!!! So excited for you 
Yours sounds like a good philosophy. One day I shall have to blog about Outliers!
@CafeDave: Thanks for the tip!
@Elissa: Thanks for your kind words! It makes me happy that you and Dave were excited we were getting married! Thanks also for the prayers!
@Elsie: There are lots of other lovely things I could have said about you, but let’s not overload my readers, shall we? ;P
Aww...thanks for the lovely things you said about me! I enjoyed reading this post (as I do with all yours). xo
Congratulations to you both. I know you will be such wonderful parents. You sound WAY too sensible! 
(Sorry to read that there were some unusual comments made about your marriage! We thought it was exciting. We still have a lovely photo of you & Ben in our lovely box of special memories. (I was only 22 when married & I was 30 when we had Bonnie...)
Everyone is different! I nodded through your post. SO many people feel the curious need to share their “horror stories” which is just dreadful. I remember complaining to David who said - go find people who are positive & listen to them. Great advice, which I did. Those people still have a big place in my heart because their advice was honest & gentle.
Bless you & Ben & the little Peanut. We pray all goes smoothly over the coming weeks/months ahead. We sometimes forget what a precious little miracle life really is…
Another book from the dad’s perspective I found helpful was From here to paternity - it’s an Australian book, and was followed up with a blog.
Hi!
I’m so excited for you reading your blog about being pregnant I am 13 weeks pregnant with #2.
You’re so right about all the pessimism “advice” that you get. I got so mad about it but never found a good response. I’ve had such joy right from day one with E that I just don’t want to buy into the negativity (I’m sure kids pick up on it too!).
My philosophy was/is to be a relaxed mum and from that figure out what was best for my baby/child. Get advice when you’re not sure on things or want to know how other people approached things, read books (loved Outliers!) that aren’t all about parenting… but just enjoy.
In a sample size of one to date, I’ve had such a happy, chilled out son right from day one. People say all the craziest advice… glad you don’t do guilt
With love,
R
Thanks so much for writing more! I love hearing how you’re going and all your thoughts.
After watching my sister I agree with you that it seems the first six months are perhaps the hardest. She got quite lonely at home all day; weekends were all right because then her husband was around but it’s just as you say… one feed ends then the next begins! If you are accepting visitors during this period then I hope to use some RDOs to come have grown-up conversations!
The book review of The Second Nine Months makes me want to read it now!
Names: We have one girl name that we both like and no boy names that we agree on. But they are also top-secret… so if anyone else uses them we can’t accuse them of theft! 
Yay Peanut, keep on growing, can’t wait to meet you!
Hello! Thanks for sharing
I loved reading your pregnancy update! I am glad to hear that things are all going pretty well, and I hope the rest of your 2nd trimester is as good.
I just wanted to add, that some other blokes decided that there was not much for the fathers-t0-be, and made a couple of DVD’s just for expectant dads. They are called ‘Being Dad’and i think they are available at big W. I have both though, if you would like me to send them!
Just wanted to wish you all the best!
Love
Rae
re: gluten: no idea!! I didn’t have to go on that diet - it was probably related to the test I didn’t do.
At the risk of adding to your list of advice:
Re: maternity bras - because I’m big I had to look hard for something nice in my size and discovered the Australian Breastfeeding Association. They have a massive range online and most are (dare I say it) sexy.
Re: maternity clothes - Kmart have a nice range of basic stuff.. I only found out towards the end of pregnancy and I would have liked to know earlier!
Re: Parenting classes - if you’re at RPA you can just ring the midwives section (they’ll put you through) and ask directly.
Congratulations again
Don’t laminate your ultrasound picture That is my advice.
Congratulations! This is so fantastic!
Thanks so much for sharing all of this… people swap engagement stories but rarely pregnancy stories! And it’s kind of similar don’t you think, all this excitement leading up to a big day!
So happy for you guys! Actually never been more excited for anyone except my sister! I think it’s because I think that you will both be amazing parents and love the idea that someone could grow up in your family.
Looking forward to many more posts on the topic.
Lovely news, Karen.
Thanks everyone! I will be sure to ask for help when I need it!
Great pic!! Peanut is cute! :D
Praying for you all!
xx
:D
I had a similar sort of morning sickness.. except I threw up! I’m suitably impressed that you coped OS.. that must have been tough.
It sounds like you’re doing marvelously otherwise!
Book recommendation on something a bit less technical and a bit more human: ‘Birth’ http://www.birthnet.com.au/
Praise be to God indeed! Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
Congratulations, Beilharzen! Welcome to the slightly-bewildering world of pregnancy (and birth...and children...). God has blessed you greatly with this new life. We’ll be praying for Peanut’s growth and development, and for you guys as you prepare.
I’m sure you’re surrounded by baby veterans, but always happy to help with books/advice/recommendations/listening.
B&L;
Excellent job Karen! You SHOULD be pleased with yourself!
Have you discovered http://www.ravelry.com ? It is an excellent site with thousands of free patterns in its database, lots of support, tips, forums etc and of course - friends like me? Look me up when you get there - fionag77
PS Are you just wearing a bulky dress or are you sporting a bump under that dress?
oooh.... It’s done and it looks great on you! xxx
Well done on all that hard work! It looks great and will be very snuggly come winter!
Thanks for letting me know, Timo!
Hi there,
Thanks for pointing out the shortcoming on our website. I’ll pass it on to my colleagues and hopefully it will be rectified soon.
The documentary at Fashioning Now was by Holly Kaye-Smith; I’d be more than happy to put you in touch with her if you’d like.
Again, thanks for the comment, much appreciate it!
Kind regards,
Timo Rissanen
Thanks Mark! Much appreciated!
Rich survey, Karen. Particularly I was struck by the notion of Jesus being clothed with our sins. I heard recently somebody suggest the crown of thorns was a kings crown but it was made of the symbol of the curse in the Garden - thorns. I would like to read your thoughts about Joseph’s coat of many colours.
Looking forward to the next installment. Regards,Mark
It is lovely - and looks great on you.
You’ve made me want to read it - though I may need an interpreter at times!
Well done with the sewing!
I think it looks good - very relaxed and spring-y.
Hey Sandra! Thanks for the tip! I read it yesterday, but I struggled a bit because Lewis doesn’t start from the Bible. I wasn’t convinced by his argument. What did you think?
Interesting post Karen - Thanks
I like the ending too! :D
xxx
Fantastic post, Karen. Just great. Thanks!
Thanks Bec! Eternal life just keeps getting better and better ...
I do like the way you ended this post - excellent thought.
Personally I don’t feel that way. Maybe that’s something you should blog about?
Wow. Lots of things to pick up on there. It’s been interesting to see the changes to your blog these last 6-12 months: Twitter is certainly more immediate, but are there (gasp) downsides to having its constant buzz in the ear?
Is our (already fractured) ability to concentrate on a single relationship at a time further jeapordised by the regular buzz of tweetdeck (and worse yet, by the imagined sense of loss that goes with being off the grid)?
Or am I just projecting my own fears?
Hi Karen!
If you’re still thinking about this… I just read CS Lewis’s essay “Learning in War-time” which exactly addresses this issue (ie. how can we justify cultural & aesthetic pursuits when people are going to hell around us?). Have you read it? i’d be interested to hear what you think..
(i have it in his little volume “Transposition and other Addresses”, but it’s easily findable online)
I’m doing my own series on the trials and tribulations of writing on my own blog here http://sedshed.blogspot.com/search/label/From%20Head%20to%20Hand
It’s coming along slowly
Coincidentily, I stumbled upon the above Phonogram vs. the Fans cover when digging around for ID concepts for Salt. A disturbingly brilliant image.
Thanks Karen. At the very least, this post gives some context to your myriad of phonogram tweets. At best, it has reinvigorated my stagnated appreciation of comics.
Seriously, though 4,549 words. Is that the best you can do? I say, longer!
Blinks:
Why non-religious parents are starting to home school their children. Problems with American public schools. New models for education that will work (instead of just rote learning and teaching things to kids earlier).
Maybe discomfort is better for writing.
Showing her daughter that women are great by doing tours and walking in the footsteps of famous women. I like that this article is about engagement.
Jordan White, editor for Marvel, answers questions.
Jamie McKelvie answers questions.
Vision therapy as a treatment for ADHD, learning disabilities and even autism. The scientific community's opinion. The results of concentrated therapy.
Kieron Gillen on Phonogram, Siege, Ares, Loki and his collaborative relationship with Jamie McKelvie.
Superheroes and how they have changed the way we see urban landscape. Their attraction to New York.
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Comments
If you made a derivative work of another, which all creative people do all the time anyhow, it is up to the copyright holder to prosecute you.
Or otherwise, you can ask the copyright holder for permission to use it as such in which case they can say yes sure, or the can ask you for money.
I was wondering about this the whole time I was admiring your work. The thing is that it’s not clear cut in any way shape or fashion. Some patterns will say that you can’t sell any products from the pattern but some will say nothing at all. Nathan insists that the only thing that can be copyrighted is the paper/online pattern itself. If the designers didn’t want you to create and sell from the pattern then they should have patented it.
It’s very murky. Copyright australia website has some pdf helps but even then I’m unsure on the whole copyright vs patent issue.
I think this is only a very recent thing in the crafting world. Before it used to all be about sharing patterns and sharing ideas for the common good. But now it’s all about ‘gimme, gimme, gimme’.
No doubt people weren’t aware that others were selling stuff made from their patterns. But now that we have the internet, it’s easier to track these things.
From the brief reading I did, even if Australian copyright law were slightly different, because of how other countries subscribe to certain forms of international copyright law, they can still claim their rights even if you’re in Australia and they’re in the US.
Anyway, the problem come when you sell what you knit; if you give it away for free, it’s fine.
I’ve gone and asked for permission from the original designers of the patterns I used. One said a flat out no. I’m waiting to hear back from the other two.
I agree with Nathan, I don’t think you can copyright the pattern, you’d have to get a patent. Sounds like wishful thinking on the pattern creators part.
Everyone automatically gets copyright on work they produce and publish. You don’t need to (C) 2008 the work, its automatic law.
You can release that work under a license otherwise it defaults to the normal copyright law. A license can give certain permissions and apply certain restrictions in the use of the work.
Often people release works under more than one license, for say a commercial license and a free license where free may have some restrictions such as preventing re-sale of the item.
Patent law only applies if you obtained a patent, which only applies to inventions which are new and original. Unfortuantly people can patent too many things these days such as DNA and thereby own living organisms.
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