Sleepover
Sunday, 30 May, 2004
Plans for the Arts + Creative Arts girls' sleepover are proceeding slowly. I got the invitations out last week and the replies are starting to trickle in. I've invited 45 girls; I'll be pleased if we get a third of that number who are able to come. I've got girls lined up to take care of the catering, the get to know you games and the organised fun. Little Rach is going to help me with the Bible study which, God-willing, will go for about 2 hours.
After consultation with the rest of the female leaders, we've decided to look at the topic of homosexuality. Whenever I tell others, they just look at me incredulously but there are actually good reasons for doing it, which are:
- Homosexuality is one of the issues which comes up the most for students in the Arts and Creative Arts faculties;
- It's and issue which is extremely prevalent in our media at the moment, given same-sex marriage legislation in the US, the ordination of gay bishops and the blessings of same-sex marriages in the Canadian church;
- It's an issue which isn't dealt with very often in any great depth—perhaps because people are too scared to touch it with a ten-foot pole;
- There is a lot of fear and ignorance surrounding the issue because people generally don't know enough about it;
- There won't be another opportunity this year to have a look at it since none of the upcoming conferences (MYC, NTE, etc.) are dealing with it.
Little Rach and I are going to be approaching the topic from a systematic theology point of view—ie. taking key passages from the six stages of biblical theology and seeing how these stages affect how we should view the issue:
- The Kingdom Pattern Established (Eden);
- The Fall (Adam's Sin);
- The Kingdom Promised (Abraham);
- The Kingdom Foreshadowed (David—Solomon);
- The Kingdom at Hand (Jesus Christ);
- The Kingdom Consummated (The Return of Christ);
(taken from Michael Hill who cites Graham Goldsworthy in, The How and Why of Love, Matthias Media, 2002, p. 59.)
When I was having a look at this material with Amanda (my trainer), we realised that you couldn't just do a systematic theology of homosexuality; you had to encompass it within a systematic theology of sex to give you the full picture. And so, having realised that, we thought the key passages were:
- Genesis 1:26-2:25;
- Genesis 3 and Genesis 19
- Leviticus 18
- Judges 19
- Matthew 19:1-12
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-20
We felt the others weren't as key but we might be wrong there. We're now trying to write questions for the passages. I'm thinking that the program will look something like this:
- Introduction and rules;
- Write down feelings and questions about the issue and collect;
- Acknowledgement of the validity/non-validity of feelings;
- Bible study: Break up into groups to look at the passages (above) and answer questions;
- Feedback to one another;
- Karen gives a talk on
- The history of homosexuality and its relationship to Paul's words;
- Causes: nature or nurture?;
- The homosexual lifestyle;
- Cure;
- (and whatever else I think is relevant!)
- Time spent in group thinking out the practicalities of:
- How do I love and serve my Christian friends who are struggling with homosexual desires?
- How do I love and serve my non-Christian friends who are openly homosexual?
- How do I talk about this issue in class—especially in the face of university secularism?
- Feedback to one another;
- End with prayer.
It's the practical application bit that worries me; I certainly don't have the answers. But I am hoping that they will be able to come up with some answers based on what they've learnt.
If anyone has any further suggestions, please let me know.
Blinks:
A way of funding writing in the future: pitch and idea and get people to support it.
Place where you can hire play equipment for parties, etc.
How to recalibrate the home button on your iPhone.
Unsolicited manuscripts accepted by Pan Macmillan with certain conditions.
Thought Balloon is a group blog in which the writers tackle a new theme every week? month? with one-page scripts. This URL is for their Phonogram ones.
How to sew a zipper on a knitted garment.
Issues organised by tale.
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Isn’t the answer, just to, not be homosexual? if people follow Gods word then its as simple as that.
It’s not as simple as that, Philip. Well, it is at one level, but it isn’t. For people who struggle with homosexual desires, coming out of that and being victorious in that struggle is a long process, often involving therapy and other things.
I’m with Karen - pretty much the only way a Christian with homosexual desires can be ‘not homosexual’ (sans therapy) is to avoid putting him/herself into situations where they feel tempted to act on those desires. Therapy can do marvellous things, but there are no guarantees.
I think it is also important to acknowledge that, though those desires may lessen, they may also never entirely go away. Just as pornography might always be a temptation at some sort of level for a man who struggles with lust.
No I don’t really get that, you just don’t do it. For example, I can go through my day without following any of my desires if I choose to do so. Its a matter of self-discipline. Although something may be a temptation, it is not necessary to act upon the temptation.
Therapy shouldn’t be necessary for someone who can self-modify, self-actualise and monitor their own behaviour.
I often go through a day without acting upon temptation; I wake up, go to work, work hard for 12 hours, go home and sleep. If I can do it, then why can’t they?
Oh, you were talking about not doing the physical act of sex. Sure, there are plenty who get through the day without engaging in that—no problems.
For them, it’s the other stuff that is hard: the thoughts, the desires, the wishes, the longing, etc. Stopping that takes a long time.
No not sex, I mean desire of any form. You can go through the day without it, I’ve done a few times due to work taking up all my thought processing time. Thats really a choice though, you choose your thoughts and actions, if you have a thought can’t you choose to supress it and replace it with another thought.
I guess its just that I’m pointing out you can do that - so if heaven and God is that important then why not do that.
We tread dangerous ground when we assume that everyone can do as we (the individual) can.
Not everyone has the gift of self-control like Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 7.
Were told to make every effort to gain it. (that passage that talks about “add to your goodness…. and to your xx selfcontrol”—at work, can’t look it up.)Its something you can work on.. the more you do it the better you become at it. Not everyone can do it, but everyone shold be working on it, and thus getting better.
True dat, but all I’m saying is that we can’t expect perfection in terms of temptation-resistance from everyone, all the time. The other thing about Christians struggling with homosexuality is that it’s a very isolating thing for some people; it’s like a secret shame for many (reading What some of your were was a real insight into this). I’m not saying they’re not as good at self-control, but it’s just a different array of temptations, I think.
if you want temptation-resistance all you have to do is write down or just notice when you feel tempted and choose not to act upon the temptation. I don’t see what’s hard about this, all you have to do is notice - hey, I feel tempted, ok, I’m not going to do that thing that’s tempting me because it’s classified as a sin. Once the classification is recognized eg. gossip, sloth, then don’t do it.
Its just logic, it makes sense. I really don’t see what’s hard about it, you just say its hard but without reason or example as to why its hard to do.
It’s great that you don’t struggle with temptation, Philip, but all I’m saying is that heaps of people do. Often, it’s not a matter of recognising the thing as right or wrong - too often, it’s really clear - but the hard part is actually avoiding the situation. Humans do not operate according to logical maxims and rules like, say, computer programs. We do things that are sinful, which often means things that are self-destructive, but we do them because we want the pleasure they give us. If we live with the assumption that not sinning is as easy as writing it down and walking away, why on earth did Jesus have to die?
Alex:
I don’t care about the dangers, father. I just want to be good. I want for the rest of my life to be one act of goodness.
Chaplain:
Question is, weather or not this technique really makes a man good. Goodness comes from within. Goodness is chosen, when a man cannot chose, he ceases to be a man.
(Clockwork Orange)
Is that your point? That we have free choice and are not mechanical oranges?
I would rather you supported your argument from God’s Word, and not movies of questionable moral foundations. My point is that we aren’t programmed to choose the thing God wants at every point of temptation, because if we were, we would not require Jesus’ sacrifice. We need God’s saving grace, and not our own efforts, to save us. If you’re saying we don’t need that, then stop for a moment and consider how temptation fits in with God’s plan for us this side of the cross.
Well, I’m actually not supporting my argument with my quote if you read what I said.
My main point is, I believe its easy to identify sin, so if we can identify it then its easy to avoid it. I know that generally Christianity points out we are saved by faith alone, but its not the selfish act of wanting to be saved that I am talking about. Its sin specifically and how to prevent doing it. I would say you need to first identify the sin, make an effort to do so and avoid doing it. My argument is that I belive its not hard to do if you really want to do it, while you seem to presume that it is.
Well, I’m actually not supporting my argument with my quote if you read what I said.
My main point is, I believe its easy to identify sin, so if we can identify it then its easy to avoid it. I know that generally Christianity points out we are saved by faith alone, but its not the selfish act of wanting to be saved that I am talking about. Its sin specifically and how to prevent doing it. I would say you need to first identify the sin, make an effort to do so and avoid doing it. My argument is that I belive its not hard to do if you really want to do it, while you seem to presume that it is.
I give up.
Phil - Your reasoning is completely flawed, you most likely spend at least $10 a day on food while an Indonesian person in a factory earns $10 a month, suffers a lot and dies young. If you have compassion for others then you would realise that just because they are located physically far from you, they are still your neighbour. If your neighbour was in this situation and you did nothing about it, would it then not be a sin?
Your sloth and apathy in this matter is a grave sin, your in a constant state of sin and cannot avoid it.
Just behaving well does not get you out of sin.